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What’s In This Episode
In this episode we discuss what grief can look like in 3 years time.
When someone is at the beginning of their grief journey it can be feel like there will never be a light at the end of the tunnel.
In the hopes of bringing just a small bit of understanding to the grief journey 3 years in, I’ve shared:
- What I struggle with
- What has surprised me about grief after 3 years
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Speaker 1: (00:01)
You are now listening to the self-development collective a podcast in community full of inner work and self-development ideas to help us get unstuck and become the person we truly want to be.
Speaker 2: (00:19)
Hey guys, and welcome are searching for better. In this episode today, I’m gonna talk about what your grief might look like in three years. And if you are someone that knows someone that’s grieving, please pass this episode on. Um, please recommend it to them. Um, only because I know when I was at the beginning stages of, of grief, I wish I had, um, known more about podcasts. I wish I had looked more into it, um, because I really was in a place where I had no idea how I was gonna survive this. And I realized that that’s a common feeling. Um, and I really had this deep, I really had this deep belief that it was never gonna be okay. Um, um, and it felt like there was never gonna be a light at the end of the tunnel. And I had been in this tunnel for years and, um, it was really a difficult time.
Speaker 2: (01:12)
So if you know, someone who, um, is recently grieving, um, or even is a couple years in, and maybe they’re still struggling, um, please suggest this because I would’ve loved it. If someone had suggested a podcast to me that was covering what someone’s journey looked like a little later on and not a lot later on, obviously three years isn’t much. Um, but considering, you know, you have someone familiar all of your lifetime, um, or in my case with a sibling. So please pass this on because I wish that I had listened to someone else’s experience, um, and found a little bit of faith, a little bit of light in my tunnel, um, which would’ve helped. I think during that time to know that the pain and the fear was shared, and that’s something that I I’ve been volunteering for grief line, and that’s something I’ve realized recently where a lot of people have called asking, um, two things they call and they ask whether they will be okay.
Speaker 2: (02:12)
Um, and they also call because they really up and down and they feel crazy. So I am gonna do another podcast episode on common experiences that we have, um, during grief people understand, and we can normalize the things that happen during grief and so that we don’t feel crazy. And we know that other people experiences too, and that’s something I’ve people have asked, like, did this happen to you? So I do wanna do, and I will do an episode on that. That’ll be my next recording. But today I wanna talk about what my grief looks like three years in, um, to give people a little bit of, um, faith, a little bit of hope, um, a little bit of perspective on what it could look like, and again, take what resonates leave or doesn’t because the grief journey is different for everybody. And I can only speak as a sibling.
Speaker 2: (02:58)
Who’s lost a sibling, I can’t speak for other people’s experiences. Um, my brother was sick for three and a half years, and I do have an episode one of my first episodes. And I’ll link that in the description below, if you wanna hear more about that journey, but he was sick for three and a half years and look, it was quite traumatic. Um, and I only really realized how traumatic it was when I started seeing grief counselor and something I highly recommend for anyone’s journey. Um, because she had said to me that, you know, it’s quite traumatic when you’re watching someone whose life is ending from an illness, he had brain cancer who doesn’t wanna die. So it is traumatic to watch that because you start to realize just how little we can control the anxiety that kicks in, um, is insane. You feel like you’re constantly running from this, um, future that’s unavoidable and something that’s really common with all of us is we share this idea that we wanna take away this person’s pain.
Speaker 2: (03:51)
And we, we would do anything to swap positions with them. Um, and that’s definitely something I have I experienced since, um, other people have caught on grief line, same experiences. So today I just wanna focus on what your journey might look like in three years. So, um, something that, a metaphor that I thought of the other day that I really liked was, um, so in Italy, um, it’s quite mountainous throughout. They like their landscape. So there, um, some of their freeways are insane because you’ll have these moments of being like going around mountains and these amazing views and these freeways that are built so high up. And then all of a sudden you’re in this tunnel and it’s dark and you don’t know when you’re gonna get out. And for me, three years on, that’s definitely the grief process. Um, there are times where grief has taught me perspective, um, humility.
Speaker 2: (04:45)
Um, I can think of my brother and appreciate, um, all the experiences I had this mindset where I don’t want his in my experience. And again, speaking from my end, because, and this is nonjudgmental from anyone else’s perspective, cuz I can only speak from my journey, but for me, I didn’t want all the learnings that I had from his suffering to go in vain. I really wanted to make use of everything that he had taught me, um, and gifted me from this experience that neither of us got to choose. Um, so I had moments where I’d be really like, oh my God, I just see life so differently. Am I perspective is so different and I don’t worry about things. And the view was like, when you were in that section of the freeway where you could see the mountains, where you got perspective, where you felt that sort of, um, higher power that Beau, even if it’s sort of higher power, perhaps maybe it’s just a moment where you realize just how beautiful things are despite the pain and perhaps it, it is the pain that allows us to see that beauty because it gives us that perspective, something to compare it, to, to understand, I suppose, a preciousness of life.
Speaker 2: (05:52)
But then you have moments where all of a sudden you’re in a tunnel, um, and your back and the grief is like an, a 20 out of 10 and you miss that person and you wish they were here and you get flashbacks of things that have happened and moments that were really difficult for them. And um, you wish with every part of your soul that they were back, um, and the tunnel is dark. You don’t know when you’re gonna get out. You don’t think that you’re gonna have that beautiful view ever again, because life is bleak. It’s dark, there is no light right now. You’re stuck at the bottom of a, or you know, in a mountain. And it that’s very metaphorical too, because you feel like everything’s just on top of you and you’re struggling. And so that’s what I say. The journey looks like moments where I’m in the tunnel moments where I’m, um, appreciating the view, appreciating the learnings, um, appreciating my brother and his experience and the time we did have.
Speaker 2: (06:44)
So that’s something, that’s something that’s definitely, um, a way that I would think about it three years in. Now, the first thing that I, uh, I wanna say something that happens three years in for me and still going, is that I really struggle with milestones. Um, and the way I explain it is that milestones are always bittersweet because they remind me of the moments that my brother didn’t get. They remind us that he’s not here, that he doesn’t get to experience this. And as a sibling, there’s definitely survivors guilt there that, you know, I’m here experiencing these things. Um, and it’s a catch 22 because I recognize and appreciate the preciousness of those milestones. But then I also grieve the fact that he didn’t get them, that he’s not here, that we missed out on milestones together because he’s not here. Um, and that’s something that I find happens.
Speaker 2: (07:36)
Every milestones turning 30, really challenging because he didn’t get to turn 30. My brother loved his birthday. Loved parties, always had so many people there. So milestones that I knew he would’ve loved. Um, for me, I struggle with quite a bit and I have communicated that to my loved ones, which I think is something really important. If you find milestones challenging or you get to a point where you, and that they’re still challenging. Um, for me, I explain the process and I say, you know, I always have to go through the grief before I get to the happy. So I get to the humble till I get to the, the grateful, um, I w I need to work through sadness and disappointment and, and anger and frustration and re grieve, um, during milestones. And I think, um, I wanna mention this because some people you get, you go two ways.
Speaker 2: (08:24)
I feel like some people have this idea while you’re here, so you should appreciate and be grateful and you want you to be happy. Um, and I really don’t like that perspective. Um, because to me it just is a denial of the natural feelings that we have when we love someone and they’re not here. Um, yeah, he would want me to be happy, but, uh, I also would love to have him here and that doesn’t take away from the fact that life can be tough and sad without him. So at first and foremost, it’s my responsibility and it’s my experience. So I acknowledge that and I allow for those feelings to cover up. There’s no such thing to me as, oh, I, I mustn’t be grateful because I’m feeling sad and frustrated and angry. He’s not here that he’s not getting these experiences. I think it’s life and love.
Speaker 2: (09:05)
Um, in it’s in a different form, it’s wanting the best of the people we love. And we always want the best. We will always grieve for them, uh, for what they didn’t have, because we love them. And to me, grief is just an expression of love when that person’s not hearing that physical place to be able to, for us to express that. So I don’t really go with that attitude of, um, I should be appreciative and not be upset. Um, and I understand that people come from a well-intentioned place, but this is just a reminder that it’s your journey and your feelings. And it’s really important to honor the difficult times be cuz they catch up to you in all honesty. My milestones, if I don’t acknowledge the fact that I struggle with them first, before they become something that I can be grateful for, uh, something that I can acknowledge and appreciate, then it’ll just blow up in my face later.
Speaker 2: (09:50)
Um, those feelings don’t go, they just get repressed. Um, and so I have to find a way and what I would say is to find a self soothing way for you to manage that. So for me, as random as it sounds, I like to go for a drive, reflect, have a bit of a cry. That’s just my process. Um, and that’s something that I do with milestones. I sit with them, perhaps I talk to my counselor, be talk to my husband, be honest about where I’m at and just label it. I’m struggling at the moment I get to, I get the sad before I get the happy. That’s how I explain it to people. Um, especially my best friends. We go for walks. And I just explain today, this is just I’m processing. Um, and that’s also how I refer to a processing day a day, where I allow things to come up and not push myself to be grateful or happy or, um, I’ll be grateful.
Speaker 2: (10:33)
This is a situation that I’m in and this is a situation I’m dealing with and the feelings that have come up and I allow them. So this is something that I just wanna remind you of because people can be really well intentioned, but that doesn’t mean that the advice works for you. Um, and that doesn’t mean that you should suppress the experiences that you’re having because everybody’s grief journey is their own. Now something that helps me during these times and milestones times where I get really the angry and the survivor’s guilt just goes on overdrive. Um, and this isn’t a perspective that’s helped me. Um, I have to remind myself constantly, and this is something I’ve learned through the work I’ve done in self-compassion, um, that we are humans going through an experience and I didn’t get to control what happened to my brother. I didn’t get to control how it happened.
Speaker 2: (11:19)
I didn’t get to control his experience. Um, but I do get to control my response. And that’s what I always remind myself when I’m working through that anger, grief, sadness, and moving to that happy stage. I’m not really sure if I would’ve, if I didn’t have this mindset, this mindset is what’s helped me to get to that appreciative sort of grateful stage, um, of milestones and then learn to be accept the fact that they’re bittersweet. I remind myself that, um, the experience was outside of my control. The only thing that I can control right now is my response. Um, and I often think of him and I think of, and I know I just said about people wanting to be happy, but again, this is my process of wanting him, wanting me, him wanting me to be happy. But the kind of the way I think about it is, um, how would, if this was me, how would I want him to be?
Speaker 2: (12:08)
Um, and I would want him to appreciate moments and think of me, but then appreciate the moments because of me as in, because of the experience. Um, and so that’s how I work. I have to remind myself constantly, especially when the guilt comes up and the guilt is natural. So I’m not saying that the guilt should be there because I think every feeling has a valid point, especially in grief. It teaches us, but when the guilt does come up, I have to constantly remind myself that we are, the, these situations are outside of our control. The only thing I can control is my response. And I choose every time to first accept the fact that grief and love is the same. So I will always find milestones bittersweet. And again, that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate them. It just means that I miss and love someone who’s not there for them.
Speaker 2: (12:52)
And then I choose to appreciate and move forward, um, and learn from the experience that his pain gave me. Um, and something that I always think about is, are you gonna pass on your wisdom or are you gonna pass on your woes? And that’s something that an internal question that I remind myself of. Um, and again, this is very easy in, so I do wanna say when I, um, when I had milestones, they were just. Like I can’t, can’t really change that. Um, at the beginning there was a lot of sadness and grief I had to work through before I got to this mindset of, okay, I need to remind myself that this is not a choice. I did not choose to be here with Audi. I did not choose for this to have team and he didn’t choose it either. It’s outside of my control and it’s law life.
Speaker 2: (13:35)
And the only thing I can do right now is to choose my response. Um, and my response is to not let his suffering be in vain, to learn, um, to constantly create a life so that when I get to the end of which whenever my life will end, I can say that I lived it because of him and I choose every day when I can. And I’m up for it to live in honor of him by appreciating the people around me and loving the milestones that I have while accepting the sadness it’s there. And that’s a bit of a notion where I also understand now that two conflicting emotions can exist at once. I can be really appreciative of a space I’m in, but also miss the fact that that space doesn’t have him. Um, and I wanna remind you of that too, because you know, three years in you, you love them.
Speaker 2: (14:19)
It’s not going for me. This is not gonna change. I’m always gonna, milestones are gonna be bittersweet. And that’s the way I explain it to people, uh, bitter, because these are here, but sweet sweeter, because I understand what it’s like to love and miss someone and to not see them in the physical. So that’s something that I wanna mention to you. Uh, the next thing that your grief might look like in three years is something that it looks like for me is you might not know when your triggers come up. Um, and that’s something that surprised me because I just assumed that triggers. So things that cause flashbacks made me feel really sad, brought back deep memories that I might not have thought of otherwise, um, would be really common sense, not common sense, but I shouldn’t say that, uh, I don’t like using that common sense, um, really obvious ones.
Speaker 2: (15:06)
So what driving past the hospital, um, seeing you, his friends. So there’s triggers that I’m fully aware of IE milestones. I know that that’s always gonna be a trigger. Um, but then there are triggers that come at you and you’re not really aware and you don’t really know why they’re bothering you until you do some thinking around it. Um, for example, before he passed, I went to a wedding, um, and it was a bother, it was a person I knew and his sister was made of honor, oh no, maybe not made of honor, but in the bridal party. And she did this beautiful speech about her brother. Um, and I cried. Um, I found that really challenging. I didn’t think that that would trigger me. I never thought about it, but I think a part of me knew I wasn’t gonna get that experience. And I had some more on those expectations, more on those expectations for my brother too, because I knew I’d never get it to see that.
Speaker 2: (15:52)
And he’d never get to experience that. And this was like right towards the end of him, um, passing. So we, we knew that this was gonna, uh, eventually happen. Um, so yeah, so your triggers, you don’t might not know when they come up still even three years in happens, like stuff will come up and you’ll be like, oh, that’s a trick. I didn’t even think that would come up. And the thing that I would recommend is to just communicate it and ask for support. Um, and I’m really, uh, I think I usually 99% of the time communicate to my loved ones when I’m feeling triggered. Uh, and I, again, I go back to that processing day, that part, that this experience really triggered me just being really up front about it and knowing that it’s okay, that you will have experiences where you’re triggered and you don’t know, or you didn’t expect it.
Speaker 2: (16:39)
Um, another really interesting one and something that I loved, um, reading, there’s a really good, uh, group called, um, good morning. So morning as in like someone’s morning someone, um, M O U R N I N G. That’s a right. Uh, it’s a really good, um, uh, Instagram to follow. So they obviously are about grief. Um, and it was really interesting cause she posted, uh, I don’t know if you’ve seen, if any of you have seen sex in the city, the new, um, reboot, um, just like that, the first episode, sorry, spoiler alert. Just to let you know the, so if you don’t wanna know what happens, probably just like fast forward this part, but uh, Mr. Big dies, um, and you see the process and it’s quite triggering. And I got triggered by it and suddenly found these flashbacks in these moments. And I was seeing, um, my brother in palliative care and it was quite confronting and I thought it was just me.
Speaker 2: (17:32)
And all of a sudden I was on my, her stories and she posted and said, just watched it. Did anyone else find that triggering? So again, you never know, I’ve read books with situations I didn’t know, were gonna happen that were being triggering that have reminded me of my brother and his experience, um, for what I saw from my eye. So you just don’t know. Um, and that’s something that I wanna just communicate to you as well. You might find three museum that triggers are still happening and you can’t always pick them, but that’s okay. Just continue to communicate to the ones around you that you have been triggered, that you might need some space that you might need a processing day and self. So do what works for you, whether that’s like taking a drive, taking a day out or doing something to honor your loved one, or just crying it out.
Speaker 2: (18:13)
Um, that’s something important that I have found and I didn’t expect. So the next thing that I wanna talk about is a little bit of a tricky way to say it. So I’ve actually got something that I wanna read for you. Um, and it’s this essay that’s really helped me, um, by Emily Pearl Kingsley. So the next thing, and the common question that I got, um, in grief line and the reason that I’m doing this podcast is because it’s really hard to think that you will be okay when someone passes away. When you are in that tunnel, when you feel like it’s been forever, and there’s not a single light, you don’t even know where to begin. Your relationships have changed. Nothing feels the same work isn’t as meaningful. There are so many changes that happen with grief because you have changed. Your perspective has changed the way you view things has changed.
Speaker 2: (19:01)
Um, and as hard as this sounds, um, something that I have learned in three years in is that I am okay. Um, I am okay. Okay. Looks different to what I expected. Um, my version of okay. Is not what I thought it was gonna be. I didn’t think I’d be okay, but I am. Okay. Um, and as hard as this is for me to say to you, because I think I would’ve lost my. If someone said this to me at the beginning, but some people have wanted to know this people. I was surprised at grief line, wanted to call and say, will I be okay? Um, you will, it will look different to what you expected. Um, okay. It will look a little harder. It’ll look a little different, a lot different really. Um, but in some way, shape or form, I think our loved ones have this way of carrying us as they continue on in wherever they’re, they’re going.
Speaker 2: (19:55)
And that’s, that’s my belief, um, that I hold, but I am okay. Um, and you can be too. And this is something that I wanna, um, a better way for me to say it a better way is I wanted to share this part, this, this essay with you called welcome to Holland. So this lady actually wrote this essay, um, and it’s really short. So this is not gonna be like a 40 minute chat. Um, I just wanna go through it because I wanna really make it clear what I mean when I say be Kay. And when I read this, I was like, this is it. This is what I mean. So welcome to Holland by Emily PE Kingsley, she says, I’m often asked to describe the experience of raising a child with a disability to try to help people who have not shared that unique experience to understand it, to imagine how it would feel.
Speaker 2: (20:44)
It’s like this. When you’re going to have a baby, it’s like planning a fabulous vacation trip to Italy, you buy a bunch of guidebook and make your wonderful plants. The Coliseum, the Michael Angelo, David, the gondolas in Venice. You may learn some handy phrases in Italian. It’s all very exciting. After months of ego anticipation, the day finally arrives. You pack your bags and off you go several hours later, the plane lands, the stewardist comes in and says, welcome to Holland Holland, you say, what do you mean Holland? I signed up for Italy. I’m supposed to be in Italy all my life. I have dreamed of going to Italy, but there’s been a, a change in the flight plan. They landed in Holland and there you must stay. The important thing is that they haven’t taken you to a horrible, disgusting, filthy place, full of famine and disease.
Speaker 2: (21:39)
It’s just a different place. So you must go out and buy new guidebooks and you must learn a whole new language and you will meet whole new group of people. You would’ve never met. It’s just a different place. It’s slower pace in Italy, less flashy than Italy, but after you’ve been there for a while, you catch your breath and you look around and you begin to notice that Holland has windmills and Holland has CHS Holland even has remembrance, but everyone, you know, is busy coming and going from Italy. And they’re all bragging about what a wonderful time they had there. And for the rest of your life, you will say, yes, that’s where I was supposed to go. That’s what I had planned. And the pain of that will never, ever, ever go away because the loss of that dream is a very, very significant boss. But if you spend your life mourning, the fact that you didn’t get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very loving things about Holland.
Speaker 2: (22:41)
So the Holland essay is one of my favorites and something that I share with any person that’s going through any type of grieving process, whether it’s grieving a person, whether it’s grieving expectations, which I think goes hand in hand with grieving someone. Um, and I know that this, uh, this essay is about having a child with a disability, but I think the wider message that I felt I got from this essay was the loss of expectations. And that’s something that definitely will always be for me, something I carry even three years in. Um, and it kind of reflects the challenges in the milestones really, but it’s about mourning, the expect that we had, um, but also understanding that our version of okay, looks different, um, because of the morning because of the experiences we’ve had. And I think for me, the way I interpreted the last part, when she talks about, you know, you’ll feel sort of you’ll feel it when people talk about Italy, but you start to notice the beautiful things about Holland.
Speaker 2: (23:55)
And I think for me, it’s like, I will always mourn, um, my version of Italy, which was growing up with my brother and seeing him experience so much. Um, I’ll never get to that place. I’ll never get to see the things that other siblings get to see. Um, which to me is my Italy. Um, that’s me hearing people talk about their nieces and their nephews. Um, and obviously I have a beautiful niece, um, from my husband’s side, but understanding that, you know, being an auntie to my brother’s parent, but brother’s children seeing him be a parent, um, those are the Italy parts that I don’t get to see. Um, and so I’m in ho, right? I mean this other version of okay. In my life that I didn’t think, um, I would be in, but I also understand and can three years in, and again, this is a personal choice.
Speaker 2: (24:49)
Take what resonates leave or doesn’t because everybody’s grief journey is different. And again, I’m only reflecting on mine. Um, so please, again, I really just wanna emphasize that because grief is such a personal process and not something that everybody like, everybody experiences it differently. And I could only talk from my mindset, my experiences, my choices, um, but something that I really felt like I had learned was that my Holland, my life, um, was a lot richer because of the grief that I had experienced. I appreciate things more. I push myself out of my comfort zone more because I have seen the regrets that my brother had. I’ve seen what happens when you get to, or not necessarily you, but I’ve gotten an idea of what happens when we get to the end of our lives. I’ve seen someone, one of the closest people in my life get the end of their life.
Speaker 2: (25:48)
So imagining someone or myself not being here tomorrow is a possibility, not something that’s far from my mind. And that’s my version of Holland. And because I hold that so close and because I’ve experienced that, I feel as though, yeah, life is richer and more meaningful in ways that I didn’t anticipate, which again is only for me possible because of the grief. Um, and that’s something that I just wanna share because it’s a catch 22 Holland looks different. That’s a different version of okay. Um, and my version of okay, does not mean that I don’t have that. I don’t have down days that I don’t struggle. And as I’ve, I’ve gone throughout this episode, I will always have challenges. Um, and I’ve learned to accept that being okay, doesn’t mean that you’re not grieving. So that’s something that I wanna add to because being okay doesn’t mean that, and I think being okay, it’s your version of, okay, you choose what your okay, looks like in this circumstance because no one else can do it for you.
Speaker 2: (26:52)
And we don’t get any control over the circumstances of how we lose people and when we lose them. So for me, my Holland is really sad, but also really bright. And that the way I explain it, because I’m so sad for the fact that my brother’s not here and there’s loneliness with that. And there’s so many aspects of grief to that, but then I appreciate the people around me more. I enjoy the moments. I understand the importance of following the things that I love to do. I understand the uncertainty and the impermanence of life, the fact that we are not gonna be here forever. And I am, I carry that every day with me because of the grief. And that drives me. That is why I sit here. And I talk to you and I bust your balls a little bit. Let’s be honest. I drain it a little bit about choosing who you want to be and being that person pursuing the life that you wanna pursue, pursuing the passions, the dreams, hobbies, making the decisions to empower ourselves and choose a life that we love because I’ve seen what happens to someone at the end.
Speaker 2: (27:54)
And so that’s my version of, okay, and that’s my Holland. And I understand that my life before grief and before learning this was different. And I didn’t appreciate things as much. I wasn’t in the moment as much. I tended to really, um, value different things. I wasn’t as content. And as, as I am now in certain ways, purely because I’ve learned to slow down and appreciate and, and push myself in ways that I wouldn’t have otherwise. So, so that’s kind of really what I wanted to explain to you when we talk about Holland and what it looks like. Um, and again, my version, not your version, your version looks like whatever you, however your version sits with you. Um, but that’s something that I wanted to share as well, because that’s just, again, something that I think a lot of people can relate to. We’re all in our own version of Holland, right?
Speaker 2: (28:48)
We’re all in our own version of what we thought life would look like. And the fact of the matter is when life doesn’t turn out that way, we have to adjust and look at the things that Holland has that Holland has given us. And for me, grief has given me perspective. I made a choice in something that I heard, um, in a speech that I was listening to by Caroline mice. I think that’s how you say her last name, but it’s spell M Y S S. And she said, are you going to carry on your wisdom or you gonna carry on your woes? And for me in my grief, I feel it’s really important for me, me to carry on my brother’s the things that I’ve learned in my brother’s suffering and not let that go in vain for me, a choice that I have made, not a choice that I think anyone else should make.
Speaker 2: (29:37)
It’s only my choice. And I just wanna continuously emphasize that because, you know, I don’t want anyone to listen to this episode and feel like their grief has to look like mine and their experience has to look like mine, um, to each their own take what resonates, leave what doesn’t. But I just wanted to talk about it because I feel like grief is something that isn’t spoken about enough. Um, and I really, like I said, at the beginning of this video, I needed to hear some version of, okay. Someone’s version of okay. At the beginning, because it was so dark. And like, I use that metaphor. I was in the tunnel and I couldn’t see the light and I didn’t have perspective the perspective I have now, and I didn’t think I’d ever get there. Um, that’s an important part of the journey for me that I wanted to share for the people that are looking for some form of hope or understanding.
Speaker 2: (30:29)
Um, and again, it’s your journey. It might take 10 years. It might take five. It might take, you might, again, everybody’s journey is different. So I hope this episode has helped. Um, it’s been challenging to record. I’ll be honest. Um, but I’m really glad that I recorded it because I do feel as though this is such an important topic, especially with grief and what it looks like three years in, um, and how it’s shaped or can shape lives, change lives, but at least how it’s shaped mine and the perspective that it’s, that it’s, uh, the perspective it’s given me. So I hope that you have enjoyed or resonated with part of this episode and, and, you know, enjoy in the sense, find it comforting, uh, find it helpful for your own journey. And please share this with people, if you resonate with it, and you think it’s appropriate, share it with someone that, you know, that’s grieving only because I, I say that, and that’s not something I usually say the end of an episode. Uh, but this is a really, um, close to heart, one for me, and a purpose and mission that I find really important to reach out to other people who are struggling in grief or people that just want a different perspective on grief, um, or someone else’s perspective. So I hope that helps. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I really appreciate it. Um, and I will catch you in the next episode. Thank you for listening.